不知者无罪?If someone did a negative action because he did not know it is a negative action, does he suffer negative karma?

A question that has cropped up once in a while:

If someone perform a negative action :skull_and_crossbones: because he did not know it is a negative action, does he suffer negative karma?

For example, someone who have never met the Buddha’s teachings, or a child :child: who does not understand what he’s doing.

How about animals? e.g. A tiger :tiger: who kills a deer :deer: for food, does it accumulate negative karma?

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hmm… what is negative karma?
issit like something unlucky will happen to you?

i think if you dunno what is wrong, am sure someone up there will pardon you.
as to tiger killing a deer, that is the food needed for tiger to survive.
i don’t see what is wrong with eating food.

:thinking:

I believe a negative action will still lead to negative karma, doesn’t matter if he knows or not, just that the negative karma will be much stronger if he commits it even though he knows it’s a negative action.

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from what i have learnt, being ignorant does not mean that any negative action performed will not generate non-virtuous karma.

however, the intention of the person while performing the action also does play a part in the strength of the karma created in the process.

even when a tiger kill a deer for food, instead of killing the deer for enjoyment, there is still non-virtuous karma created,

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coming from another angle…

how about if i am aware that i can stop someone from performing a negative action…but I do not take any action…will i get any negative karma?

e.g. I see a child about to steal something from a shop…I adopt a neutral and passive view that the child is responsible for his own action…and then the child proceeds to steal and gets caught…is there negative karma for me?

Negative karma here means non-virtuous karma or karma that will result in suffering in the future for the one performing the non-virtuous action.

Karma is a natural law and there is no one up there that judges whether an action is virtuous or not.

There is nothing wrong with the action of eating food. It is the action of killing that accumulates non-virtuous karma.

So are you saying that killing for food will not accumulate negative karma? Why do you think so?

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Well, when animals kill other animals for food, they do as they must, in order to survive; in short, they have no choice in the matter. So, if that is how nature works, why should there be negative karma?

Good question. I guess if you are not the one performing the negative action, you shouldn’t get any negative karma. But i’ve heard of this term called “collective karma”. You are a witness to the act because of this collective karma (planted previously). By not making an attempt to stop it, you may then bear the fruits of a negative collective karma?

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In buddhism teachings, we term it karma.
But in lay terms, isn’t it a Law of Cause & Effect?
Every Action (including our thoughts) has a reaction or consequence.

For example, if someone commits a crime, can he say he doesnt know the Law & can be freed from being punished by the law? No way right?
So i guess, same logic applies for karma… doesnt mean one doesnt know it’s a negative action, he doesnt have to suffer a negative karma. If such a case, then everyone would rather chose to be ignorant & say “I dont know”! haha!

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I have not read any sutras or lineage masters stating that “having no choice” does not accumulate negative karma.

By “Having no choice”, I supposed you mean “The environment or circumstances force me to do so”. However, the reason why a person is born into that kind of environment that force him to perform negative actions is also due to his or her karma created in the past. For example, why is a tiger born a tiger? It is because it has created that karma in the past.

So, there is really no such thing as no choice. At one point in time, we all have a choice to perform non-virtuous action or virtuous actions. If we choose non-virtuous action, that may result in us being trap into an environment where we can’t meet teachings that teaches us virtuous from non-virtuous, or in an environment where circumstances force us to perform non-virtuous action, which in turn makes us accumulate even more negative karma.

In other words, non-virtuous action reinforces itself as it results in one being born into an environment which “forces” him into committing even more negative actions, a ”suffering" trap that is difficult to get out once we fall into it.

Therefore, it is important to perform virtuous actions whenever we have a choice.

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After reading Venerable Bensi sharing, I feel so fortunated to be born as a Human life (with leisure & opportunity).

At least we have the intellect to know what’s right and what’s wrong through spiritual and dharma practice. With this, we have the ability to make informed decisions and not being obsessed with food for surivial needs just like the animals which force them to perform negative actions & accumate more negative karma “unknowingly”.

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Dear @Jereme, will you be able to explain more about collective karma or have more reference on it? As an example, how would a bystander or supposedly neutral party be affected by the negative karma performed by the group?

My basic understanding is to focus on one’s own thoughts and actions rather than being too concerned over what other people are doing.

I believe that the motivation plays the major role in deciding whether it is negative or not. :innocent:

I found a video here that talks about 共业 or collective Karma.

Watching it, a few examples quoted by the Venerable helped me dispel a few of my
misconceptions.

One example is when we witness a traffic accident and are summoned by the court to give our testimony. One thinking here is that as a Buddhist, one should not get involved as there is likely to be negative Karma brought about by the negative emotions - collective Karma.

However, the Venerable provided another perspective. If our 动机 (motivation, i guess) is positive and clear, that we are just providing a honest account of what happened, we will not be getting the collective negative Karma.

anyone has thoughts on this?

Sometimes I think too much and start speculating about what kind of Karma will I get with each action I take. This spirals very quickly into troubled thoughts as I realised I can’t really understand how Karma works. :confounded:

I took to the web to search whether other people encountered this.
And I found explanations on the “Four Imponderables” of which one of them is “The [precise working out of the] results of kamma (Karma in Sanskrit);”

This helped me address why I was troubled and I could then better resist the temptation to overthink.

Then my next question would be whether the forum people here have heard about this from the Venerables or from the course of study?

This is mentioned in the Great Treatise on the Stages of the Path to Enlightenment, Volume 1 Page 246 - 247:
“Thus, having understood virtuous and nonvirtuous karma and their effects, do not leave it at just an understanding but meditate on it over and over, because this is a very obscure subject and it is difficult to acquire certainty about it.”

Here, it refers to karma as a “very obscure subject”, which is the same meaning as what you mentioned in your post. In Chinese, we call it “极隐秘法”, where you just have to rely on faith in the Buddha words. Therefore, the text continues,

“Further, the King of Concentrations Sutra says:
Were the moon and the stars to fall from their place
And the earth with its mountains and cities to perish
Or the realm of the sky to completely transform,
You [Buddha] still would not speak a word of untruth”

The text goes on the rebuke those who claim to have acquired certain knowledge of emptiness, but are uncertain about karma and its effects.

His Holiness, The Dalai Lama’s advice on this is to develop respect and faith for the Buddha first by meditating on His good qualities.

We should also study, analyse and meditate upon those teachings that we can understand through logical reasoning and experience(interestingly, His Holiness said emptiness is one of these). When we analysed these teachings deeply and see how they coincide with our own experience in life, we gain a confidence in them that is based on our own reflections. This develop faith in the teachings, and we will come to feel that since the Buddha gave such profound, logical instructions that are true, then surely his other doctrines will be correct.

My own experience is also the same. So far, those teachings that I can study, analysed and put into practice are as what the Buddha said, and they also changed my life for the better. Even just living my life based on karma being the truth makes me a happier person. Furthermore, the doctrine of karma doesn’t contradict the other truths, so there is no reason to doubt the truth of it, even though I couldn’t directly prove it through reasoning or experience.

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Thank you 法师 for explaining more! 感恩

Thoughts that we don’t even know ourselves already created karma. Karma will not empty but hell will !
If a sentient being is successful in practice, his karma will become an affinity for helping others to walk the path.
Namo Amithabaya